Curse

]SK[ · Sep 15, 2006, 06:31 AM // 06:31

I suppose we will see alot more enchantment strips on monks now. I'll repeat what 500,000 other people are saying in that it's not like Boon monks were over powered anyway. Being hit with 10 second recharge is something that needed to be taken into consideration then they go and hit it with the reduced healing stick too?

I know they basically want people to use a more variety of builds, but simply changing something because its a solid build is pretty daft. New monk's were starting to appear. Look at Air of Enchantment monks. Once again they get hit with +1 energy and longer recharge. Weve also seen alot of Blessed Light monks. I think slowly after this update we will see Blessed Light used alot more. Until they nerf that too...

Zuranthium · Sep 15, 2006, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Taking both the -2 energy per spell and -1 energy regen into consideration, the new healing bonus on Boon barely gives you better efficiency than if you didn't use it at all. I think WoH and RC may become the new monk duo for GvG, with BL substituting sometimes.

Blame the Monks · Sep 15, 2006, 12:34 PM // 12:34

I believe you are overestimating the impact of this nerf.

The nerf cuts around 7% of the boon prot's healing efficiency at most specs. That is big, but the strengths of a boon prot remain -- low cast time, the ability to preprot effectively, and durability. I think the boon nerf kills cop, but I wasn't using cop much in the current metagame anyhow (although I have always liked the skill). The change further makes gift of health more attractive on boon prots.

I think we are basically in the same position we were prenerf - blight was already better against many forms of pressure and boons were better against large packet damage (warriors) and spikes. Word and such will still be on the bench until it can do more than simply spam healing alone. The healing line needs utility - ways to preprot, ways to remove condition/hex + heal, ways to keep the monk alive and so on before it can compete with the boon or blight monk package.

Scourgey · Sep 15, 2006, 01:08 PM // 13:08

I honestly think this 10 sec recharge nerf was needed about 1 year ago, boon protects were far too powerful before this nerf. Being able to remove hexes on themselves with boon & cop rapidly, making the majority of the hexes & enchantment removal useless against the monk (in those days, it was energy drain instead of mantra of recall as well).

It simply means that boon protects are more suspectible to enchantment removal, which they should always have been in my opinion. I would have preferred it if divine boon got a casting time increase and a 5 second recharge instead really allowing them to be more vurnerable to interrupts

I've played boon protects for just over a year now and I have to say, I'm finally glad that this monk got a nerf. You also have to remember, one of the builds that could easily kill a boon protect got a nerf too (bunny thumper).

SassiLady · Sep 15, 2006, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Well, if you didn't look at my link I posted in my last thread, Mantra of Recall, and Enegry Drain are supposdly also going to be nerfed with nightfall. So even with the damage reduction you gain from being a boon prot, you won't be able to manage it for shit without any energy.

On top of those two rumors, think about all the other downsides boon prots will now have.

ex: mark of death, pred season, defile flesh, lingering curse, natures/tranq, Quickening etc etc.

I monked the other day in a tombs build as a boon prot, and pred season made the healing laughable. QZ made the energy horrible, natures and tranq builds were everywhere. It was pretty bad, seems like people are already taking advantage to the boon prot nerf.

As much as some of you all think that the damage reduction/heal from boon is great, I'm pretty sure that boons will be a thing of the past soon, probably with the nightfall release, if not earlier. WoH/BL monks all the way.

moriz · Sep 15, 2006, 09:29 PM // 21:29

actually, that list you posted was a list of "leaked" info, which were probably not what they actually settled on. i've seen that list with my guildies as well, and the consensus we reached was that the list was a list of "potential" changes, and are not carved in stone. i personally think boon prots, with some adaptation, are still just as viable as before.

Lord Dark Genie · Sep 15, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SassiLady

On top of those two rumors, think about all the other downsides boon prots will now have.

ex: mark of death, pred season, defile flesh, lingering curse, natures/tranq, Quickening etc etc.

Last time I checked, heal monks and BLight monks get affected by healing reduction just as much as boon prots.

Quote:

I monked the other day in a tombs build as a boon prot, and pred season made the healing laughable. QZ made the energy horrible, natures and tranq builds were everywhere. It was pretty bad, seems like people are already taking advantage to the boon prot nerf.

Yeah, people in tombs build against boon prots. It makes sense, because Boon prot is the most common build there. /sarcasm

brad- · Sep 16, 2006, 01:28 AM // 01:28

With the enchant strippers out there...and I'm sure it'll be more than one mesmer...every /me will have one. That means with the 10 sec recharge that div boon is now worthless in PVP.

Div boon will still be fine for PVE...but PVE doesnt hold my attention very well at all.

If it is a permanant change in nightfall, its A-nets way of yelling "Every PVP monk switch to B-light and hope your team can keep you up when you get hammered cause we're gimping the beloved boon prot!"

AJM · Sep 16, 2006, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Boon prots are still the best option for three reasons: cast time, energy management, and Contemplation of Purity. No other build has two 1/4 second heals, nor affords the use of elite e-management, nor has practical use of CoP.

In my experience, blessed light monks are much more vulnerable to damage and mesmer press lure. Hex distortion or frenzy hex breaker, gg IMHO.

Ummm... I dunno if you noticed, but fighting a good group of D/Mo with CoP (at least as they were in the PvP preview) was kind of like getting into a fistfight with a rhino. Unless you have a very big gun or are a very, very quick thinker, you'll just piss it off and get gored and/or trampled. Any time the D/Mo are in trouble, just cast CoP and *TADA!* god-like heal and instant energy regen.

So.... expect major nerfage in either the Dervish, or CoP... or both.

Dervishes were overpowered in the preview, but it wasn't because of their own skills as much is it was about how they combine with skills from other professions, particularly monks and warriors (I tell ya, I had forgotten how powerful ViM can be under the right conditions!).

That aside, if I set him up right, my mesmer can rip pretty much anything a new a-hole or two... as long as they're fighting someone else...

I look forward to picking apart Dervishes almost as much as I look forward to playing them

Poison Ivy · Sep 16, 2006, 05:03 AM // 05:03

We'll at least it makes the game faster, and VoD won't be part of every GvG.

Also a new age for the Blessed Monks

Patrograd · Sep 16, 2006, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by brad-

That means with the 10 sec recharge that div boon is now worthless in PVP.

With all due respect, this isn't true.

A boon is still a very, very solid monk build. It is still the best monk based counter to adrenaline spikes. Maybe the boon/edrain combo is a little weaker due to strippers, so just run boon/MOR to give yourself the cover enchant. The nerf to the healing is pretty insignificant when you look at the value healwise of a booned reversal onto someone getting spiked. Use sig devotion more imo

-Loki- · Sep 16, 2006, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJM

So.... expect major nerfage in either the Dervish, or CoP... or both

CoP is fine as it is, it's overpowered on Dervish's. So, give it a required 4 Divine Favor or it has a 50% failure chance, like Gale with Air. The difference is, a Dervish won't be able to spec into Divine to make CoP worth taking.

moriz · Sep 16, 2006, 01:51 PM // 13:51

boon prots now should play a bit differently and adapt their builds to match.

for example, i replaced sig of devotion with GoH, MoR with energy drain, and CoP with hex breaker.

now i can run an entire match without using divine boon, and heal just fine. i turn it on in high pressure situations, and leave it off most of the time. i can even sometimes piss off mesmers by dangling divine boon as a bait. when they start to cast shatter/drain enchant, i cancel it, and their spell does nothing.

the boon prot is definately NOT dead, and NOT obsolete.

Chase the Sky · Sep 18, 2006, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgb

Disagree - a mesmer specced with a not to unusual bar (Mantra of Recovery, Drain, Shatter) equals gg. on your boon. You get five out of twenty five seconds of boon and that's just not enough healing. Boon-prots are still strong when your opposition lets them be, but they are a disaster waiting to happen. We've started speccing five to six enchant removes in our GVG builds now and twin boon prots is starting to become GG.

If everyone starts bringing massive enchant removal to matches then eventually guilds will stop using boonprots. And it will only take 2 matches for the mesmers in your guild to start complaining that they are packing WAY to many enchant removals for each GvG match. Then your guild will stop bringing them. And then prot/boons will come back since no one will be packing enchant removals any more.

And that is called the meta game.

Maybe we'll see three monk back lines again? I remember those days fondly.

timmyw29 · Sep 18, 2006, 11:37 PM // 23:37

I've always considered the boon prot to be the most stable and reliable monk build. I don't see this changing a whole lot, like JR said the boon prot is still definately useful and no more difficult to use in general.

I'd rather the metagame didn't shift toward three monk backlines again, mostly because it'll mean longer matches. Yes, 20 min VoD but even so, I think everyone would agree a 5-10 minute win is far more comfy.

Wasteland Squidget · Sep 18, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmyw29

I'd rather the metagame didn't shift toward three monk backlines again, mostly because it'll mean longer matches. Yes, 20 min VoD but even so, I think everyone would agree a 5-10 minute win is far more comfy.

I've seen occasional three monk backlines over the past couple weeks. Unless you're condition-heavy the Restore prot isn't too big a difference at the stand, but it does make it much easier for a team to handle splits and gank forces. Sending 1 monk back into the base to heal while you still have two at the stand can be a strong play against a lot of splits.

I can't see it becoming popular though, unless the metagame becomes extremely shutdown-heavy. The other advantage of a three-monk backline is that it's much more difficult to KD or Blackout 3 monks than 2 during a spike. Things like E-denial are also less effective.